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His musical tastes quickly grew to encompass hip hop, jazz and any other genre that caught his attention and he became hooked on the lyrical talents of spoken word artists Gil Scott-Heron, Sage Francis and Saul Williams.It was their poetic mix of styles and genres that encouraged him to leave his bands and go it alone, the idea of having no one to rely on or blame other than himself an appealing challenge.For a moment, there is quiet, and then a chugging camper-van belches around the corner and rolls to a standstill. If Pip is the ringmaster in this enterprise, the wordsmith, then Le Sac is the acrobat, flipping tricks around him, layering hip-hop beats and electro bleeps and fizz around Pip's Essex patois. It's the kind of beard that mice peep out of in Quentin Blake illustrations, that Edward Lear nests larks in.And if one day you can't rein it in, and of your last breath you are the only witness, then so be it, cause it's your last breath, and it's nobody else's business. Families grow distant, but it's meant to be your friends you can rely on. But they failed to because although you didn't ask for their support, it should have been mandatory. It's your life, your body, so you can choose what you do. Instead of living a life I was a big part of, You would rather die.And if one day you can't rein it in, and of your last breath you are the only witness, then so be it, cause it's your last breath, and it's nobody else's business. Instead of fighting though together, and turning things around, You decided to grasp the greener on the other side of the ground.

I'd know certain words I'd stutter on, and as I was speaking I'd be thinking half a sentence ahead, needing to replace that word with another.

In the podcast, Scroobius Pip says: "I've always been really glad that I've been brought up to be happily proved wrong, enthusiastic to be proved wrong".

We talk about how we try to encourage politicians and journalists to adopt a similar attitude, taking pride in accuracy and making an effort to set the record straight if they’ve made a mistake or used an incorrect source of information.

It's a great little tool, because it allows you to have two streams of consciousness going on at once. If I know a song too well, I have to drag myself back." While Pip found a gateway to hip-hop through the Beastie Boys and Cypress Hill, and learnt from the incendiary hip-hop poets Saul Williams and Sage Francis that the spoken word needn't necessarily separate itself from the beat, Le Sac DJ-ed, flitted around in bands, made music in his bedroom, but never quite found what he was looking for.

"It wasn't until I started working on my own that I realised it was just that I'm not easy to work with," says Le Sac, flopping back on the sofa.